Clan Ranking (logic behind)


#1

Hi @all :exclamation:

Question …

Which logic of this universe can explain, that …

  • 1 loss is more worth about Clan Ranking than 1074 wins and 919 losses

:question:

And that after the weekly tournament runs 3 days and a few hours …

Beside that Clan The Dedpool Army has 6 “dedpool” players in it (sure not alt-accounts) :grey_exclamation:

Since we never get any answer about HOW Clan ranking works exactly, maybe this EXTREM example can lead to any answer from you …

@Sarah247
@Mohadib
@jonny

:wink:


#2

Everyone run! This new clan will dominate the ranking, next week: top 3 with 2 loses and 0 wins!


#3

I’m In Kongregation - and this stuff boggles my mind - I haven’t seen it explained anywhere…


#4

@bestplayerintheworld that’s the same topic I have raised like 2 months ago and that now lay in the past without any insight given…


#5

You just see the top 4 clan…


#6

Player is better than wins…


#7


#8

Wut is dat?


#9

A bug ( 20 crahdsabcj )


#10

Imagined, but it’s a weird one! D:


#11

i think you won something at some tournament…
check your stats


#12

in the last 24 hours …

bestplayeroftheworld single rank 60

  • won against rank 27, jumped up to rank 57
  • +3 ranks

bestplayeroftheworld single rank 25

  • won against rank 2763. jumped up to rank 14
  • +11 ranks

So … HOW can be a win against someone with 2738 LOWER rank better (+11 ranks jumped up), then a win against someone with 33 HIGHER rank :question:


#13

It has never made Sense to me .


#14

Hi guys,

I’ll try to explain the current ranking logic to the best of my ability. I say current because there may be changes in the future (which we’ll keep you up to date on).

A clan’s score is the sum of all of its players scores. So to understand a clan’s score, we have to understand player scores.

A player’s score is the sum of two factors : Ladder points and expert points.
Ladder points is a number between 1 and 125, which is “how many stars has the player earned” (there are 25 ranks, and each rank has a number of stars required to earn to climb to the next rank, so count them all together to get to the total ladder points).
Expert points is a system closer to the ELO system used by games like Chess and Starcraft. The system only kicks in when you are rank 1 (skull). You start with 0 expert points, and when two players face off, the winner earns a certain amount and the loser loses a certain amount based on the difference between their expert points. If I have more expert points than my opponent, I am the favorite to win the match, and therefore I will win less points and lose more points if I win or lose. The opposite will be the case for my underdog opponent. You can never go below 0 expert points, which is how “expert point inflation” happens during a ranked season. Expert points get reset at the end of the season.

Since a clan’s score is the sum of its players scores, if you want to rank high you should have a full clan, with all of its members ranking high as well.
We are aware that we are currently not exposing all of the details (how many expert points does each clan member have? Etc). We are considering how we can elegantly communicate this information in the interface (a lot of you are playing on web / facebook, but this is also a mobile game where we are more limited) or maybe tweak the rules to make them simpler to communicate.


#15

Thanks Jonny. It sheds alot of light on a very shadowy aspect of the game.
So let me see if i got it.
Clan A and Clan B.
Each member of that clan, must reach th highest tier that they can, ex Black Skull.
After reaching Black Skull, the “expert points” come into play, the more you have the better.
These “expert points” are the ones that also place you in the ladder ranking.
So if you win higher ranked players(that have more expert points then you), you earn more expert points, and automaticly increase your ladder rank, and your own pool of expert points. Loses against higher ranked players, make you lose some expert points, while loses against lower ranked player, make you lose alot more expert points.
The clan is the summ of the expert points of all it’s members.
So the clan with the most black skulls, and the most expert points of those black skulls is the higher ranking clan.
If this is the corect scenario, there is a serious drawback to it, from what i see.
The hunting of preferable player:
That encourages counterbuilding, with sacrificing the overal strengh of your build, and also encourages the Spam invites, that somehow trigger preffered matchmaking, with the designated target of the invites.
It may look competitive to some, but to me, it looks like a cowardly sistem of play.
Since there will be plaers that solely do that, and hunt the tops with counterbuilds.
It also ecourages alt-accounting, with the prospect of just stalk and prey gameplay.
EX:
Player A uses a strong Heat build, that is well rounded against most other builds.
Player B is hunting, and sees Player A in the online players, and starts Spam invites, his setup is a specific Phis build, with high heat and cooldown, basicly a counterbuild of Player A, but his build is very weak against Energy and other Phis. After a few spam invites, he pushes the play button on the ladder, and catches Player A, wining and taking his expert points.
This looks like a not so fun way to play, because counterbuilding should be used in the 2v2 or 3v3, you know, have a mech for any scenario. But in the current matchmaking, it just looks like a game of hide and seek, and i think that is a bit far off from what the game is intended to be.
My question : Is it fair? and Is it in your agenda, of the devs something to exclude this from happening?
Cheers


#16

You mean this is how it supposed to work? Because its not working if a clan with 1 losses is number 4.
Not to mention this:

And you managed to make this relic update but still weren’t able to fix the rankings the wins/losses are the same number problem.


The match making
#17

I don’t think “spam invites” -> preferred matchmaking abuse exists.

I’ll explain a bit about the matchmaking as well then :slight_smile:

We have a matchmaker that is very simple : when you request a match, you get put into the matchmaking pool. Every player has a “center” and a “radius” : The center is their rank (ladder points, explained previously). The “radius” is the distance from their rank which we are willing to match them up against. The matchmaker will put people against each other if they are both within each other’s radius.

The longer you are waiting for a match, the further from your rank we’ll be willing to put you up against, because nobody in your exact ladder points is searching for a battle. It is our way to manage the tradeoff between wait times and matchmaking precision. There are a few minor exceptions (don’t put people from the same clan against each other in ranked ladder, etc) but these are the rules.

Spam invites (I assume searching for battle and cancelling many times in a row) do not increase the chance of you being against a specific player.

Looking at the online list and preparing counterbuilds can work if you know who is online and is looking for battles. This is often referred to as “Stream sniping” in other competitive games, and can indeed be a problem. However, it is a problem that all multiplayer games have to deal with, regardless of their ranking system and matchmaking algorithms.


League - weekly reset
How does ladder system work?
#18

Thank you, it is becoming brighter and brighter.
But with just a little addendum, “Spam Invites” is the former known strategy as “fishing” you continuously invite a certain player in chat at 1v1 matches, spaming those invites, and it works like this.
If the player is in the loby, the invite get’s send,and is active, if that player is looking for a match, as is in the player pool on que, the invite get’s automaticly declined, and you press play, and can catch him.
The hit ratio of it is pretty high, specialy if the players are closesly ranked.
It works very well atm especialy in the top tier, since the playerbase is rather scarce, 3-5 top player online, and the hit ratio of this tactic is about 80-90%.
This sistem allows it to be abused, and given the prosperous way it can be used, i think it needs to be ironed out of the sistem.
Right?


#19

Send this algorithm to my PM as Source Code.


#20

Ayyyy Starcraft who still plays that game I am finishing Legacy of the Void!!